A student at the knife making class referenced in the previous post strains to bend his test blade.
A smiling student and her test blade that passed with flying colors.
Recently I was talking about knives to a friend of mine who is a knife collector and the subject of R P (Robert Parrish) hollow handle survival knives came up. To the best of my knowledge these knives were made in the 1980s at Mr. Parrish’s shop in Hendersonville, NC. I remarked that I was sorry that I had not purchased one when they were available especially since I knew Mr. Parrish and had visited his shop in the 80s. Over the years I have lost touch with him and I don’t think that he has made knives and offered them for sale in quite a few years.
Several days later I stopped by to see the same friend and he said that he had something he wanted to give me. Opening a bag he took out a R P hollow handle knife and handed it to me! He said that he had two and saw no reason that I shouldn’t have one of them. It was a very generous and unexpected gift from an old friend that took me completely unaware. It is something that I will remember.
At my age it is extremely unlikely that I will ever have any practical use for a hollow handled survival knife but this R P knife now holds a special place in my collection. As far as I know these knives were made in 5”, 6”, and 8” blade lengths. This knife is the 8”X1½”X ¼” blade version and is made from 440C I believe. The metal handle is knurled under the neoprene sleeve and the knurled, threaded butt cap is fitted with an O-ring and lanyard hole. The knife has a bead-blasted finish and the serial number and maker’s mark are on the front of the guard. The serial number indicates that the knife was made in August of 1986 and it was the 628th 8 inch knife made. In addition to the maker’s mark on the front of the guard the ricasso is also marked “RP”. The nylon sheath has a liner of hard plastic that protects the sheath from being torn by the very sharp saw teeth on the spine of the knife. The knife is 13 3/16” overall in length and weighs 20.4 oz.
This is a very well-made knife by an excellent craftsman made during the 1980s “Rambo” hollow handle survival knife era.
Postscript: Amazingly after all these years, I was able to track down Robert Parrish while he was on a road trip, and he told me how to decipher the date and serial number. He also mentioned that he was glad that I was not dead. I’m glad that he’s not dead either. Text and photos copyright Bill North 2013
Ivory handled knife by Tai Goo
In order to be successful, a full time custom knifemaker the maker must maintain a balance between art, craftsmanship, and business acumen. Those three things are like the three legs of a milking stool, if one leg is far out of proportion to the other legs the foundation becomes unsteady. In my experience those makers that seem to me to be accomplished in all three areas are far fewer in number than those that are not.
A knifemaker that naturally has an inclination or understanding of the art, craftsmanship, and business sides of the craft has a tremendous advantage over much of his competition. Many makers seem to be strong in one or two areas and weak in the others. I have known many skilled craftsmen that that were adroit at the craftsmanship aspect and/or the art aspect but sadly lacked at the business side of the endeavor. As a result they were unable to make a go of it, and having to seek some other source of income either left the craft entirely or nearly so.
My experience has been that the business side of knifemaking as a commercial undertaking is where most makers are weak. Makers that have someone to help them with that aspect are fortunate. Without good business practices, no matter how nice the knives, the venture probably does not have a bright future, at least as a full time occupation.
Once again the above is just my opinion based on my observances and experiences.
To see more knives by Tai Goo visit his website at http://www.taigoo.com
copyright Bill North 2013
The big pie of custom/handmade knife makers can probably be said to divided into three segments or wedges of unequal size. There are probably sub groups or wedges as well but for today I will talk only about the three main groups or wedges of the pie.
Group 1: This is the smallest wedge of the pie and often although not always the best and most desired makers come from this group. These are full time makers that get up every day and work at the business of making knives and these makers deserve respect for their strong work ethic, and the skills that they have acquired and honed. It is their profession. Their knives are for sale. In my experience knives from the top level makers in this group sell well in the aftermarket, often at a profit. The best and most successful makers have a good grasp on the three legged stool of art, craftsmanship, and business concerns; they are able to keep the stool level.
Group 2: This is a large wedge of the pie. These makers are part time makers and often they have other jobs or additional sources of income. They don’t rely on knife sales to buy groceries and they make knives when they have the time or when the spirit moves them. Many of these makers are skilled and make very nice knives. Often their production, limited as it may or may not be is for sale. Some of them are able to sell almost everything they make and others not so much.
Group 3: This huge portion of the pie is made up of knife enthusiasts that want to a make a few knives for fun, for the experience, to learn more about knives, or to fit into a group of like-minded people. In my experience few makers in this group ever become highly skilled because they don’t for whatever reasons devote the time necessary to learn, to practice, and to actually complete projects. In my opinion it is unlikely although not impossible that a knife purchased from a maker in this group will appreciate much unless the maker moves up the ladder of wedges of the pie.
I know that sometimes makers in group 1 are concerned that their sales are damaged by makers in groups 2 and 3 pricing their work much lower than group 1 makers think is fair or correct. I doubt there is much validity in that thinking. A part time maker is unlikely to be able to do much damage to the sales of the best known full time makers providing that the full time makers are good business people. What will more likely than not damage sales are poor business practices and not moving forward with the business as it changes.
I don’t have any actual numerical data that supports the above. Like much I have written on this blog it’s just my opinion based on what I have observed. So if you disagree or think I’m full of it that’s fine; you can and should have your own ideas.
copyright Bill North 2013
I saw quite a few “blacksmith” or roughly forged knives before I ever heard the phrase “Brute de Forge”. These knives were for the greatest part unsophisticated and homemade in appearance as opposed to the better brute de forge knives by skilled makers that we see today.
Today the more refined brute de forge knives that we see may feature forged in finger guards, file work, silver wire inlayed handles, and engraving. Some areas of the blade are usually left with an as forged surface.
Joe Keeslar is an ABS Mastersmith and the chairman of the American Bladesmith Society, he is also known for his brute de forge type knives. I believe that it is safe to say that the example pictured here is typical of the style as done by Joe. Overall it is 9 13/16” and the clip point blade is hollow ground. The tiger maple handle slabs are decorated with silver wire and pins and the spine of the blade is file worked. The bolsters are engraved and the file work on the spine is enhanced with engraving.
The forged in finger guard is wide and a smooth curve making it comfortable to the fore finger. This is an area where many other knives of this type that I have seen have fallen short. The balance point is just behind the finger guard and the knife rests comfortably in the hand.
copyright Bill North 2013
The internet becoming so universal and easily accessed almost anywhere has changed many things in the custom knife world just as it has in many other areas. There are many types of knife forums, dealer websites, organizations websites, manufacturers’ websites, etc. Today knifemakers can have their own websites, blogs, or forums much, much easier than ever before. Many makers are taking advantage of what the internet offers them, the degree of this advantage taking varies from a little to a lot.
It is very difficult for me to imagine why any maker that is able to access the internet and is serious about his knife making, does not make use of the internet to whatever degree is best for him. Maybe I have just answered my own question…perhaps the maker is not serious, or maybe the maker thinks that it is best for him to not make use of the internet, although I can’t make sense of that thinking.
The various knife related forums can be a great place for a maker to show off his work, draw attention to his own site, announce shows he plans attending, post work in progress, etc. Well established, popular makers more often than not receive warm receptions on the various forums, not so well established or lesser known makers may or may not get the same reception. The forums are a keen edged sword that cuts both ways, the makers image can easily be enhanced or just as easily damaged.
It goes without saying that makers posting on forums should show their best work, and one would think that it also should go without saying that makers should be careful about how they come across on the faceless internet. Of course no one likes to have their work criticized, but if a maker posts his work he has to accept that everyone might not give it the glowing praise he hoped for. Getting sucked into arguments, becoming defensive or even worse losing one’s temper needs to be avoided like the plague by makers. Lots of potential customers may be watching.
The internet and having a website in particular not only allows makers to show off their work but can assist them in taking orders and selling knives. By doing these things the maker’s website potentially reduces the number of shows that the maker feels that he must attend, and thereby expenses are reduced. A maker can use a blog in many ways to maintain interest in his work, and they are simple to have and maintain as well as being free in many cases.
If the maker does have a blog or website it needs to be updated and not allowed to go stale. Most of us will soon tire of visiting a site that does not have new content over a long period of time. This morning I looked the blog of a certain ABS Mastersmith and could not help but notice that it has not been updated in 3 years and 10 months. You read correctly, I am not exaggerating; there have been no updates to the maker’s blog in almost FOUR YEARS!! All I can say is that it is truly baffling to me why the maker does not grasp that it would be better to take the blog down than to appear so lacking in focus and organization.
As usually is the case with this blog, the above is just my opinion based on what little I know and my own experiences.
copyright Bill North 2013
In the following I am addressing “using” knives and not “collector” knives:
For years I have seen on various internet knife related forums posters who may or may not know what they are talking about, commending the virtues and/or decrying the faults as they see them of various steels used in knives. I know of makers that are so focused on steel and heat treating that they seem to pay little attention to other important aspects of the business of knife making. I have heard claims that some batches of well-known steels are supposedly superior to other lots of the same steel, and maybe that’s so, I certainly have no way of knowing. I have seen makers claim their heat treating methods were superior to other methods, and I have heard makers criticize other maker’s heat treating methods as being wrong, too basic, not advanced, etc.
I used to try to pay attention and attempt to sort through all this input and to get to the bottom line; what steel and heat treatment is best for my knives? Soon I was overburdened with information and I found myself easily being seduced by the promise of a better steel or better heat treatment. I spent more time wading through mountains of others opinions and thoughts on the matter than I did actually using any of my way too many knives. Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to what was the best steel for me, some new steel would be put on the market or some cache of desirable but hard to get steel would be suddenly be discovered and available.
After several years of wasting time at this never to be fruitful “steel silliness” I made a decision that seems obvious now, I’d just use some of my way too many knives and figure out what worked for me. I found out some things, and some of what I found out was not what I expected at all.
One thing that I found out was that in a large percentage of the knives that I tried, the steel and heat treatment seemed adequate or better to meet my daily use requirements. When it comes to the factory made knives that I own, I just have to believe that most factories that produce and sell thousands upon thousands of knives probably have the heat treatment of their chosen steel pretty well down. The factory knives that I own and use work just fine at what I use them for. If they don’t I get rid of them or throw them in a drawer to be forgotten.
As far as custom knives, I suppose most of us have to take the makers word for some things. If I decide to buy a knife from a custom maker, I am probably forced to accept what he says as far as the steel goes and how it is heat treated. That is sort of an uncertain position to be in. My experience with ordering custom knives is that sometimes I get what I think I am going to get, sometimes more, and sometimes less. As far as I am concerned, if fit and finish are sloppy, or promised delivery dates are missed by a lot, then other areas of a makers work could and probably should be suspect. The custom knives that I use I could not be happier with performance wise.
Another thing that I found out was that while the steel is very important so are other things. Now days not being so pre-occupied with the steel selection or how the steel was heat treated I am able to focus on other things. Things like is the knife ergonomically pleasing to me, is it reasonably easy to sharpen, is it’s edge holding and strength acceptable for my purposes, and does it have blade geometry that works best for me at the tasks I would put that knife to? Is it constructed in a manner that is satisfactory to me, and if it is a knife that I am going to carry, does it “carry well”? All these things are important to me in a knife that I am going to use more than casually. And all those things are probably more important that the “steel silliness” that I was caught up in.
copyright Bill North 2013
This year a new knifemakers organization was announced by Ed Fowler. It seems to me that Ed is a polarizing character in the custom knife world. Most of the controversy that I am aware of centers on his heat treating methods and the results he says that he has achieved. I would think that a lot of the controversy could be put to sleep if Ed would publish the metallurgical results from a recognized, independent lab but for whatever reason he chooses not to do that. And to be fair, as far as I know none of his detractors have had an independent metallurgical lab test one of Ed’s knives and published the results either. And so as it is so often in life, it’s a case of “he said vs. he said”
Ed is an interesting person who has authored articles in Blade magazine, one or two books about knifemaking, and also has made DVDs about his knifemaking methods. He teaches his bladesmithing methods at his shop in Riverton, Wyoming. Visually Ed’s knives are a style of his own and that style is repeated whether the knife is large or small, at least that is normally the case as far as I know. The examples of his knives that I have seen and handled had sheep horn handles, brass guards, and what I would describe as long ricassos. At least longer than what is generally seen.
Visually I like Ed’s knives in that they are different than what is currently in vogue, and to me reflect an independent spirit. The ones that I have handled were comfortable in the hand and had very durable appearing sheaths. I have never owned one of Ed’s knives and am not able to comment from personal experience as to how they perform.
Ed has some followers that are knifemakers who emulate his knives partially or wholly as to blade shape, ricasso length, steel type, handle material, and guard material. I assume they may partially or wholly use his heat treating methods as well.
This year Ed resigned from the American Bladesmith Society and later announced a new knifemakers organization, the HEPK. I believe that stands for High Endurance Performance Knife. It appears to me to be very loosely organized, and Ed has published on his forum the mission statement and requirements to be a HEPK Mastersmith.
The HEPK, like the ABS, uses “Mastersmith” to distinguish a particular level of skill that a smith has reached. Although the word is the same the tests to award that status are quite different. Both organizations have their own Mastersmith performance tests but the ABS also tests for design, fit, and finish. I believe, although I do not know for sure that the HEPK as an organization is performance oriented and less concerned with fit, finish, and embellishment.
I do not know if the HEPK has a website but some information about it can be found on Ed’s forum http://www.knifetalkonline.com/smf/ . I was not able to find a membership list, a list of Mastersmiths, any planned events, a mailing address, an email, a phone number, or any of the other things that one normally associates with a new organization looking toward the future. One thing that Ed has categorically stated is that there will never be any dues.
The ABS was first incorporated in 1976 I believe. From a small beginning to the present it has grown to now having about 1100 dues paying members. The ABS has done many things to boost its membership and further its goals. It has its own yearly show, puts on hammer-ins, has schools, has established a ranking system for member smiths, publishes a magazine, advertises, etc. Despite doing all those things, the current membership is just about 1100. That is approximately the number of students and staff at the High School in the town where I live. To me that speaks as to how small the custom knife world really is and how hard it must be for like organizations to get members. Since Ed has stated that the HEPK has a no dues policy, members might be easier to acquire; many people do want something for nothing.
Free, volunteer help in organizations is great, but in today’s world some money is needed to accomplish much. Without dues, and unless financing comes from somewhere else, I am unable to see any way that the organization can grow to be very large. Eventually, if the organization does grow, things like printing, advertising, stamps, phone bills, publishing newsletters or a magazine, office space and supplies, etc. will require money. Perhaps the goal is to keep it small and informal, in that case very little money would be needed.
I would think that a maker wanting or needing to sell knives would ask himself if being a member of an organization is going to be beneficial to him, and if the prospective customer will take the organization’s standing within the industry into account when considering a purchase. Whether or not you are a fan of the ABS it is an established organization and a Mastersmith ranking helps makers charge more for their work. It remains to be seen if being a HEPK Mastersmith will be as helpful.
Of course getting paid for the knives one makes is not always a motivating factor for the maker. If that is the case then as far as financially speaking goes it makes little difference what organization the maker is or isn’t a member of.
What the future holds for the HEPK I have no idea and could only make pointless speculations. In ten years we should have a pretty good idea, and in thirty six or seven years those of us that are still around will know for sure.
I for one think that the more pro-knife related organizations we have the better the future will be for knife makers, knife owners, and knife enthusiasts.
copyright Bill North 2013
Postscript: Since I originally wrote the above I have seen the link www.hepk.org When I went to that address it took me to Ed’s forum and not to a HEPK dedicated site. Perhaps that was temporary and the link will go to its own site in the future.
Bladesmith Mike Christenson using a power hammer
In the custom or handmade knife world there are two popular ways of making the blades, forging and stock removal. In the stock removal method the maker starts with a piece of appropriate steel and uses cutting tools or abrasives to remove everything that does not look like the blade that he wants to create. In the forging method the maker also starts with an appropriate piece of steel but he heats it to a malleable state and uses hand or power tools to force it into the shape he wants.
Actually, when it comes to forged blades in most cases the blade is only forged to shape in its earlier stages, and then stock removal takes over, at least that is how it normally is done. Different makers forge the blade to varying degrees of the final blade shape before stock removal takes over. Some makers forge very closely to the final shape and others not so much. Despite how much or how little forging is actually done in the shaping of the blade process, if knives have been forged at all by the maker, the market seems to refer to them as “forged blades”.
Some people say that forging makes a better knife but they don’t say exactly how much better or what independent lab evidence they have to support that position, at least I don’t have knowledge of it if someone has. Please note that I said “independent lab”. I have heard it said that forging is more economical in terms of material, but knife steels are not that expensive considering the price of finished knives and they fail to mention the extra time and materials used in cleaning up a rough forged blade. Proponents of forging say that forging allows the maker to create shapes that other methods don’t, but I doubt that is so; computer controlled machines can do remarkable things. I also have heard it said that forging allows the maker to use different shapes of steel as raw material, and as true as that is, I doubt very much that it matters much to most collectors what shape the steel was before it was a blade. In fact I bet that nothing in this paragraph matters much to most collectors….of course that’s just a guess on my part, but I would still bet money that way.
One excellent quality that forged blades by good bladesmiths often have is distal taper. It is a tapering of the blade thickness from guard to tip and helps avoid “nose heaviness”. This is easily roughed in during the forging process but would require much grinding to accomplish by the stock removal method. This distal taper is what gives some knives such a well-balanced feel in the hand. It really makes the difference in how Bowies, fighters, and other large knives feel. Large knives with good distal taper can feel very light and quick and many collectors like them.
Forging capabilities do allow makers to make laminated blades and Damascus or pattern welded blades, and currently collectors are drawn to both those blade types. There is something archaic about forging, the fire, the anvil, the whole “Under a spreading chestnut tree the village smithy stands” thing. To most of us, forging as a way for a solitary craftsman to produce a knife blade is very far removed from the computerized world we live in. And therein probably lays a great deal of the reason for its appeal.
So why is it then that many collectors are drawn to the forged blade? What is the allure? Are they in fact drawn to the forged blade or is it that they are drawn to a particular knife, knife style, or makers work that just happens to be forged? Certainly there may be collectors that collect only forged knives, but it is probably a small segment of the collector population. I am only guessing, but I imagine that most collectors with sizable collections have knives of both forged and stock removal genres.
copyright Bill North 2013
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t think so; the custom knife thing in the U.S. has changed a lot in recent years. Some portions of it have improved and moved forward with the times, and others have not kept up and moved backward.
I have seen knife makers of all skill levels come and go. To me it is not surprising to see the less talented or less committed disappear, but it does make me wonder when good makers that have had their share of recognition quit. I suppose it is simpler than I tend to make it; probably they simply disappeared because of poor business practices, economic reasons, health issues, or burn out. I know from personal experience that it is disappointing to have purchased an up and coming makers work only to see him drop out of sight the following year.
It is not as hard to learn knife making as it was 10-15 years ago, information on the topic is much more easily accessed than it was in the past. Through the internet, bladesmithing schools, community colleges, makers teaching in their own shops, etc. many hopefuls have learned knife making and been able to communicate with other students and makers. Some of these become really skilled makers and others not so skilled, but as a group they fill the slots in the already crowded world of knife makers that were vacated by those that left. I have heard it said by more than one maker, that makers themselves as well as the schools are hurting established makers business by teaching the craft to too many hopefuls.
No doubt some newer makers may be taking sales from more established makers by turning out the work that collectors want at a price collectors want to pay. I think this is a good thing in that it gives buyers more options and makers are forced to refine their methods, products, and business policies. At the mid and higher levels of the custom knife world, as the quality of the work offered increases there is more and stiffer competition for the buyers’ dollars.
I clearly remember the first American Bladesmith Society cutting competition that I saw. It was when The Spirit of Steel Show was still in Mesquite, Texas and I was fascinated by it. Later I saw more ABS run cutting contests and they were interesting and exciting I thought. Apparently the powers that be didn’t see the value in them because cutting competitions have now become an event put on by another organization and is dominated by stock removal knives.
From my position on the outside it looks to me that some of the non-organization sanctioned events held by knife makers are doing well and are attractive to collectors. These makers obviously have some insight into what collectors want to experience at these events.
Without being specific, there are very strong suggestions of cronyism, and elitism in some knife related organizations and by some members of those organizations.That is of course a real turn off to many, causes ill will between makers, and in the long run hurts not only the organizations and makers but the custom knife business as a whole.
A large sign of the changing times is the fact the Blade Show, the large knife show that has been held in Atlanta for years has changed its name to the Blade Show and Living Ready Expo. The name has changed and so has the overall makeup of the seminars and the table holders. I know that many custom knife makers will not like the new format, but I understand that the show promoter needs to sell tables and get admittance paying visitors through the doors. It’s just business.
It used to be that there was great emphasis placed on nice, clean hand rubbed finishes and Japanese style hamons. Today these beautiful indicators of skill and good craftsmanship have become passé and many makers have moved on to laminated blades or Damascus blades in an effort to keep up with the changing market or to try to keep their work a little different from that of the competition. Rough, textured, or forge finishes on unground portions of the blade are currently in vogue. Sometimes the texture is applied as a design element and other times it is the finish on “user” knives. It remains to be seen as to how long these types of blades these will be popular with buyers and what the next “in thing” will be.
There are some good makers that I know of who experienced a drop in sales of their more expensive knives and compensated by producing knives of simpler design and construction that could be sold at a price that was attractive to customers. Other makers experiencing the same drop in sales have refused to make less expensive pieces saying that it would devalue their top line knives. I am not qualified to judge who is doing the correct thing, but of the few that I have information about it looks like the makers that have adjusted to what the market will bear are doing better.
I don’t think that it can be denied that the internet has had a great effect on the world of custom knives. There are forums about the making of knives, the collecting of knives, maker’s forums, etc. Internet savvy makers can use the internet to promote and sell their work and do not have to rely entirely on dealers or shows to get their work in front of potential buyers. I think that too few makers take advantage of the opportunities the internet offers them to reach potential buyers. Today it is not that difficult to have a basic website or blog, and it could easily and probably successfully be argued that a maker that does not have one is missing an excellent opportunity to get and keep his or her name out there.
Certainly it can’t be denied that there are plenty of makers to go around but I doubt the same can be said of collectors, and I wonder if the number of new collectors is increasing as fast as the number of new makers. I imagine that there will always be makers of custom knives that would make knives just for the pleasure of doing so, but many makers want or need monetary compensation for their labors. Without collectors there will be a lot fewer makers of expensive custom knives.
Please remember that the above is just my opinion acquired through my own experiences and what I have heard from others regarding their experiences and opinions. Admittedly my knowledge is limited and your experiences or opinions may differ greatly from those expressed here, and that’s probably normal since often people view the same thing differently.
Copyright Bill North 2012